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Post by nolecub on Jun 16, 2009 9:27:09 GMT -5
Very disappointing loss for the town this round. Seems noone even looked at my lynch to dissect the votes, only focused on Jason. I had an itch about ole X man, that's why I was asking about his mafia points system. No one else seemed to want to question him though. It will be tougher for you next game X....
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Post by Jason Maher on Jun 16, 2009 9:47:48 GMT -5
nole: did you not read my post where I went through those who voted for you 1 by 1? But by that time I think the mafia were confident enough to blatantly target me and ignore everyone else. I don't know if they knew or suspected I was the cop or doc, I think they just saw an easy target who had been mentioned as suspicious by pretty much everyone. I must of course accept a large part of responsibility for the loss. The mafia having such a huge advantage virtually required the cop to balance the scales. For the record I most likely would have investigated w_m on night 2, which would have not have been a great help. I also probably would have come out on day 3 if I hadn't been backed up against the wall. But that's all by the by. Good game scummers, you took your advantage and used it ruthlessly. In the words of Dr. Claw: I'll get you next time!
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Post by colorlessgreen on Jun 16, 2009 9:52:19 GMT -5
GG everybody.
I get a big fat fail for this round.
-CG
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Post by bobthewarrior on Jun 16, 2009 10:11:39 GMT -5
I feel like I got to cut my teeth as a mafioso in a fairly easy environment. We mafia never really had any concerns throughout the game, we were never close to being lynched.
Night 1 we narrowed it down to Nac vs. Nole for the NK. Night 2 we went for Merlin because he seem all over the place. A good NK target as he doesn't allow any really good conclusions to be drawn. At this point you'd already lynched Nole and JM. Our Night 3 conversation was simply around avoiding a Doc save. We targeted CG (how convenient, since he couldn't save himself) and had a backup plan of bandwagoning whoever had the first vote. With the way the rules were laid out, whoever got to 4 votes first would die, and see as all four mafia were still alive it would only take three of us plus one townie (to get things started) to get a majority lynch and the win.
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Post by goltar on Jun 16, 2009 10:24:34 GMT -5
Sorry about night 1 Nac.
And Jason, you revealed way too late. I didn't even see your reveal until the night, at which point even if I didn't want you lynched, it wouldn't have mattered.
Good game everyone, I saw we were all in suspicion lists at some point or another.
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Post by nolecub on Jun 16, 2009 11:08:51 GMT -5
Jason, I saw your post. Unfortunately, by then, I think everyone was out for you.
I was a little surprised w_m did not push soylent a little more on day 2. I thought she was cornerned, but ended up going no where.
Looks like its time to make it a little tougher on the mafia round these parts.
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Post by colorlessgreen on Jun 16, 2009 11:27:42 GMT -5
I saw your post too. Sadly, it was too late in the evening for me to start playing glass-in-front-of-me with whether it was a fake claim. As I tried (rather poorly) to explain at the time, if I voted for noodle, it would have given the mafia their choice between you and noodle as the death, meaning it's lose/lose for the town unless both of you happened to be mafia. Voting for you had at least a slight chance that you were fake-claiming, giving us another day.
Hopefully the next round of mafia won't have day/night flip at 1 AM so I can actually see the entire day's commentary and not have to make predictive/preventative votes like that.
edit: And for the record, I wasn't actually out to get you - you were pretty midrange in my suspect list. There's several people I would have preferred to target rather than you (which, unfortunately, included more than one townie). I just didn't consider your suspicion to be zero, and the chance that you were mafia was all I had to hope for.
-CG
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Post by Jason Maher on Jun 16, 2009 11:52:33 GMT -5
Yep, I miscalculated. Should have realised 9 am in Britain = asleep in the US and there would not likely be anyone on, despite that post being 3 or so hours before the deadline. First mafia game I've played without a deadline rush of posts and/or votes. Mind you, the trigger for my reveal was the third vote (I was going to hold off until day 3 if my vote went no higher than 2). I might mention that I was right with my analysis that in all likelihood there were 2 scum who bandwagoned nole (goltar, soyl) and 2 who didn't (Xanth, Bob). One of the few things I've ever been right about, so I'm claiming it! edit: as far as balance goes, it's difficult with such a small group. 4 mafia out of 12 starting with a NK makes it VERY tough on the town unless the cop gets lucky, reveals early, and the town believe him. 3 mafia out of 12 makes it quite tough on the mafia if the town gets lucky with an early lynch and/or a cop reveal and/or a doc save.
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Post by colorlessgreen on Jun 16, 2009 12:04:53 GMT -5
edit: as far as balance goes, it's difficult with such a small group. 4 mafia out of 12 starting with a NK makes it VERY tough on the town unless the cop gets lucky, reveals early, and the town believe him. 3 mafia out of 12 makes it quite tough on the mafia if the town gets lucky with an early lynch and/or a cop reveal and/or a doc save. I've been thinking about that. I think that 3 mafia (25%) would be a more balanced game - slightly favoring town, but less in favor of town than 33% is in favor of mafia. The other thing I thought of that would be entertaining: new mafia "power" role, the Mafia Bigmouth. They are in all ways a regular mafia (they win if the mafia wins), but they are required to vote for a mafia during the day. If, at any time, they do not vote for a mafia for a day (e.g. if they fail to log on for 48 hours), the mafia's next NK is replaced with them (and it is described exactly as if the mafia had chosen a NK). This would give copious amounts of fodder for discussion and figuring out who the mafia are (if the bigmouth is allowed to continue living), or if the mafia don't like having the bigmouth constantly voting for them, it'd bring us back down to a 25% ratio ( and cost the mafia a townie NK, which is a pretty big incentive to allow the bigmouth to continue living). Plus, I think it'd be a huge amount of fun for the bigmouth to try to figure out how to knowlingly vote for teammates without giving themselves away. -CG
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Post by goltar on Jun 16, 2009 13:23:31 GMT -5
I like the bigmouth idea, I think it would give the mafia something else to think about. And if there is a possibility of a mafia traitor as well, that will really keep them on their toes.
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Post by colorlessgreen on Jun 16, 2009 13:26:52 GMT -5
The idea actually grew out of a mafia traitor idea. The problem is that I can't think of any way to have a mafia player who wins when the town wins (if that's what you mean by mafia traitor). You'd have to prohibit them from just straight up revealing the other mafia, and even with that prohibition in place, the obvious point of the role would be to subtly reveal the other mafia, and you'd have to draw a line somewhere. The game would likely come down to the judgements of the host as to whether ___ is a legitimate subtle hint or a straight reveal rather than anything from the group.
-CG
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Post by soylentred on Jun 16, 2009 13:36:14 GMT -5
I like the bigmouth idea, I think it would give the mafia something else to think about. And if there is a possibility of a mafia traitor as well, that will really keep them on their toes. This leads to my sorry confession. Xanth - when you were on and on trying to convince us why we should have one night of no NK just to confuse the town I was convinced you were a mafia traitor. Not sure if it was kosher but I even PM'd (at night of course) Goltar to say so. I have been in many games with traitors and turncoats and gotten the bad end of the deal. I was also thinking there had to be something to slow us down - but there wasn't. Sheepishly accepting the grats and GGs. Nice game all. Thanks Naz for hosting. Also I did not consider myself bandwagoning anything - I just wanted there to be enough votes on a town member to at least lynch by tie. I was just putting a vote anywhere but on one of us and then watching the numbers.
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Post by water_moon on Jun 16, 2009 13:58:23 GMT -5
I seriously suspected goltar from RL clues so I was rather handicapped this round. (hence my attempt to emulate Sherlock Holmes and logic.)
Sadly that lead me to underestimate soy, and actully take her "seamstress is unimportant" misread at face value. Xanth was also setting off rule alarms but with the town too close it wasn't safe to get rid of possible badies who may just be townies who weren't paying attention, which is normally not only safe but advisable.
Bob wasn't on my radar but that's becasue FIREHORSE was too big a blip.
So help me, the "I know I'm a townie so so-in-so going after me must make them a mafia" is a horrible arguement, and one that by logical extension means that since I knew I was a townie means whoever is making that statement against me must be a mafia. Talk about circular logic!!!
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Post by soylentred on Jun 16, 2009 14:17:27 GMT -5
W_M I seriously could not find the description of the seamtress in the notes. I thought if I came out knowing what it was and it turned out it had only been told to the mafia in our PM - I was in trouble if only the mafia knew the details. So I just said I didn't know that we had all been told about it and that is the truth.
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Post by water_moon on Jun 16, 2009 14:20:29 GMT -5
@jason, p.s. I second the waiting until late in the day to claim cop was dumb as sin. You don't wait till 7pm if you're set to die at 8 to appeal. After my last post I signed off and went to bed, as had several other people. And frankly the only way to confirm it would have been to lynch you anyway.
What suprises me is that the mafia didn't claim, sure it would a be a deadgive away to the cop, but it's also a perfect target/confusion thing and with 4 to 5 cutting one lose ould have been too easy.
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