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Post by Nac Runo on Dec 7, 2008 6:26:59 GMT -5
@ric: You should definitely join the next game, we were far from being a burden imo, you just need others to know you more Also goltar will answer for himself for sure but in one of the previous games water_moon was mafia and goltar outed her thanks to RL hints. He than regretted doing it and that is the reason he is so against that. I also agree that real-time should not be mixed with the game also some may debate on that. @w_m: I didn't understand that "everybody post" thing. Also the fact that i never played this game without team mates disproves your generalization imo .
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sint
Full Member
Posts: 105
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Post by sint on Dec 7, 2008 8:05:40 GMT -5
1) If Liq is alive on day 3, he is scum. 2) If you pathetically beg for your life, you are scum. 3) If you vote for yourself, you are scum. #2 yes definately. This is something some people won't understand but if you're town you should actually count on ending up dead. As townie you have less to lose by dying then as mafia. If someone is attacking me when I'm townie I want to know why and instead of begging for my life I will PRESS HARDER on any buttons I can find so that when I die and show up townie at least the town will have information to work with. #3 definately not. However in this case, definately yes. Oh my.. voting for yourself when the town is in LYLO is just only possible if you're mafia and both LE and goltar did so.. normally voting for yourself is actually a strong persuasion method, seeming strong enough to sacrifice yourself to convince others. #1 meh.. I don't think so. If everyone keeps repeating it then the mafia will just let LE live long enough so he'll get lynched. I understand why people say he's influencial, but just poke him with a stick and you'll be fine in finding out if he's mafia or not. W_M, yeah it was actualyl funny how the discussion started off on night one on who to kill. Eventually we were like ''oh well, we'll try to push for a lynch on W_M, hopefully it'll work'' and blammo ;D thar she went! It's just too bad you went on day one since even if you were right on target it's just too easy to dismiss. And a little question: what exactly are the powers of the godfather besides showing up townie when investigated? Nothing other then what you just said. He's a mafia who will show up town when investigated (not when being lynched). Jason, yeah.. because of my posting style I admit I can take information and twist it around slightly in my favour. You said no one checked back to your suspicion list, but I actually did Now the obvious question, what do we do with the information? Well, seeing how we know for sure merlin was mafia we can take a good look at skiff (who now looks a lot more clean) and per jason's suspect list take a look at ''goltar, sint, bassano, and Liq''. I know why I'm on his list seeing how he explained in post #254, because I voted ric after he came clean. LE is on there for similar reasoning and I like to know from LE if he knew about jason before daybreak (and you can't lie!!). Goltar and bassano look more interesting though. Yesterday, with the situation at hand, I dismissed goltar and bassano. One because he seemed to be doing a good job and the other because the time was better spent elsewhere. And just talk over it like nothing happened ;D dismiss the obvious targets, take the one who's looking interesting of the mafia side (goltar) and the one who we can frame (bassano) and just make some vague assumptions.. done deal
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Post by goltar on Dec 7, 2008 9:22:01 GMT -5
ric, yes, I was 100% serious about the RL stuff. As Nac said, I outed w_m as mafia almost purely (about 99%) from her RL behavior before the first night was even over, and about halfway through the first day I was able to positively identify her power role within the mafia.
And definitely play again. Get used to being ignored, everyone is ignored at some point, even when you're around for a long time. It's far more frustrating when you're right though, as you have just seen.
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Post by merlin on Dec 7, 2008 11:31:06 GMT -5
@water_moon yes, I did call for that, didn't I? It was more or less pre-arranged that I'd make a logical fallacy at the end of day 1, allthough this one was perhaps a bit blatant
@all: I noticed the hidden message by jason as well. At that moment, it was crystal clear to me we would win (mafia side), because the cop was dead already. I think you were premature there jason. It might have been better to make it an open statement, because this was playing the long odds. Given your suspect list, AND the fact that at that time there were 6 mafia left and only 1 doc, odds were good the mafia had spotted it. So I deleted the post I spend half an hour making, and watched you guys hang me. And then watched how the mafia decided (as I had predicted) to hit you on the suspicion that your role wasn't noticed by the doc. From then on, it was easy enough, given that most of the town more or less trusted two of the remaining mafia (Sint and Nacruno), while all other mafia were not under complete suspicion.
Having said that, I DID take note of the way me and jason went at it again. I guess it's just not in me to treat this as the game it's supposed to be. I hope you guys/girls have fun playing it, but from now on, I'd better stay at the sideline. Besides, you have gifted new players out there, so there's no need for me.
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Post by Jason Maher on Dec 7, 2008 12:19:22 GMT -5
merlin: don't be silly mate, I wasn't taking it personally. I don't know if you were deliberately doing it, but you were doing a good job of saying I was dirty without really saying it. As I mentioned at the time, this is a damned good tactic if you're trying to smear someone's name (which is exactly what the scum in this game are always trying to do), and thus is perfectly legitimate for a scum such as you were this round to attempt. I was actually impressed by it.
I quite enjoyed the exchange, knowing all along you were scum, and looking for some chance to trap you. You avoided being trapped, which is why I resorted to the "reveal". I crunched the numbers, realised we were stuffed if we hit another townie, realised the town would be on its own if I went, and decided desperate times call for desperate measures. I just wish one townie had taken either mine, w_m's, or ric's suspect lists seriously. My tactic did catch sint (when he left out part of my message), and could have been interpreted as catching Liq as well if anyone had read it instead of taking sints word for it... oh well, that's what happens when you have a good shepherd.
A general fact of life actually - people will not think for themselves by and large if someone does the thinking for them. Politicians exploit this fact to the nth degree. Once again Mafia lives up to its initial purpose - illustrating aspects of group behaviour when most of the group are missing most of the information.
I'm close to having the next round ready to go, incidentally. I'll post more in the other thread on this matter.
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Liquid Evil
Full Member
The silver in my eyes cuts through any lies.
Posts: 219
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Post by Liquid Evil on Dec 7, 2008 14:02:19 GMT -5
And a little question: what exactly are the powers of the godfather besides showing up townie when investigated? This is the PM I got from Ray. And regarding the w_m lynch, I basically stretched everything she would give me. When I finally finished writing it, I thought to myself, "Yeesh, this is so circumstantial and flawed...I'd lynch anyone that came forward with a case like this. *Post*" Sure enough, people came out of the woodwork to say how flawed the arguments were, only to finish their criticism with a vote in her favor! Surprising, but I guess you can't argue with results. Something I've noticed in these games is that lynch trains started on the second part of the day seem to have higher odds of that person actually dying, than those where people have to keep their votes on someone for the full 48 hours. I used this to my advantage and purposely waited until I thought the town had crossed that point before posting.
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Post by skiffcz on Dec 7, 2008 15:00:21 GMT -5
@jason er ... I have in fact reread your posts, because I did *not* know about the text, and was curious. But I have overlooked your thankyou to me and pointing at sint. Cant say how that happened. After that, I sticked to sint copletely to have two solid points (me and +1) ... well, pwnd. Paradox is, that my little beer trip into Liquids mind was the point I was closest to get it, in that state I swear all his posts were written in dark red (16 beers actually,oh yes) and I *KNEW*. Then Nac made me feel shame for it = second pwnd. But even if LE was lynched, we would be doomed. Sint would not lose his credibility any way. merlin Well, it probably does not mean much from a newbie, but anyway - Id like you to rethink. I dont want you to fold
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sint
Full Member
Posts: 105
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Post by sint on Dec 7, 2008 17:59:35 GMT -5
Lesson learned. Never trust anyone besides yourself (and your team).
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Post by muzzz on Dec 8, 2008 16:14:19 GMT -5
And regarding the w_m lynch, I basically stretched everything she would give me. When I finally finished writing it, I thought to myself, "Yeesh, this is so circumstantial and flawed...I'd lynch anyone that came forward with a case like this. *Post*" I had actually been planning to save you for night 4 or so, before you wrote that. Not that it mattered any. Also, this is what I sent Ray the first night:
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Liquid Evil
Full Member
The silver in my eyes cuts through any lies.
Posts: 219
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Post by Liquid Evil on Dec 8, 2008 16:24:49 GMT -5
Who did you PM for investigation on the 2nd night then? Little old me?
edit: I only ask because at that time I was trying to get investigated.
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Post by jrlafrance on Dec 8, 2008 17:31:15 GMT -5
Muzzz, don't reply to that question! We don't want LE head to get any bigger than it already is.
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Liquid Evil
Full Member
The silver in my eyes cuts through any lies.
Posts: 219
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Post by Liquid Evil on Dec 8, 2008 17:44:39 GMT -5
Too late. Ray already confirmed so I'm off to the hat store.
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Post by jrlafrance on Dec 8, 2008 17:52:14 GMT -5
I'll admit LE, you had me suspicious, but unwilling to point to you during the first 2 days. However, when you started pouring it on extra thick, that put you over the top, and hence my vote for you. GG.
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Post by muzzz on Dec 8, 2008 19:37:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I totally fell for it. I forgot for a moment that Jason only revealed my first investigation.
Being dead and just sorta skimming through the thread was an interesting perspective, though. At first I figured Sint or Goltar had a hand in my killing. It wasn't until I read one of your anti-Wasp posts out of context that I started wondering what was going on.
Revealing Jason's message was a nice touch, by the way. Even though I found Sint's reply to Jason slightly odd, with the trailing comma and all, I didn't really suspect him until it was pretty much in the bag for you guys.
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Post by water_moon on Dec 8, 2008 23:03:07 GMT -5
@nac-yes, I've noticed. But one of the things you like to do is post a big long list with every person on it, as though you're afraid to leave some one off and thus hint at your partners. And regarding the w_m lynch, I basically stretched everything she would give me. When I finally finished writing it, I thought to myself, "Yeesh, this is so circumstantial and flawed...I'd lynch anyone that came forward with a case like this. *Post*" Sure enough, people came out of the woodwork to say how flawed the arguments were, only to finish their criticism with a vote in her favor! Surprising, but I guess you can't argue with results. I once read a book where a charter points out, "What does a shepard do? In exchange for protection he takes their wool, he takes their milk if he is so minded, and once the flock is large enough he takes the old and young for slaughter." I might also point out that at the time your sig was written "good shepard" was an oxymoron. Shepards were genrally regaurded as theives and men of loose morals.
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