Kahlan
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Kahlan on Jul 17, 2009 8:53:45 GMT -5
I started the game thinking I could be a true seer pretty easily relatively early. I knew I was going to conservative with my guesses. I wasn't even going to consider sending in a guess unless one was a lynched mafia to be sure I had at least one. Lynching 3 civvies in a row did not help. I was starting to think about risking it when slr came out. I had been planning on using alterego for awhile, but I needed a pair, and slr coming out with names worked well enough. Kahlan and OTH were my choices the next 2 nights. I'm having so much fun hearing about who I might be, I kind of don't want to say! Awwwww......come on, tell us!!! It has been driving me nuts trying to figure out who you are
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Post by colorlessgreen on Jul 17, 2009 10:00:51 GMT -5
I have to say to CG, hello kettle, meet pot. You complained about people on both sides calling names and then turned around and said we all played a feeble game except Kahlan/LT. I'm glad she impressed you so much, but I felt that was rather uncalled for. And just one example of some of the poor sportsmanship I have noticed in this game. And I am not so much referring to the fall out at the end when the Mafia outed themselves as I am to the over all tone I saw from the get go. Where did I say that? -CG edit: Found it: PS. In case this game is going to end soon, I'll be sure to read up on the way the game is played at LP. I felt the newbie approach was a bit feeble 2bh, but kahlan was pretty good. I'd like to analyze the way you lot play the game. My name is not merlin, sir/madam. edit2: to defend merlin a bit, I think he was saying that acting like a newbie, which was a strategy employed by some players, was a feeble strategy, not that all of anyone played feebly. -CG
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Post by goltar on Jul 17, 2009 10:18:21 GMT -5
I have to take one thing back. Regarding the mysterious stranger, starman had no choice of his alignment, since he didn't replace lazarus until Day 3, at which point it would have been too late to choose. So well done starman for playing what you had to the fullest.
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Post by wrayburn on Jul 17, 2009 16:24:05 GMT -5
Oh CG, I am very sorry for mixing you up with Merlin! I should have been quoting everyone I wanted to address all along, but to honest, I was being lazy. Sincerely sorry. And I have now changed my profile to reflect the fact I am a female. And I don't think any of us intended to act like newbies, I think you underestimate just how difficult it can be to come into a new group and play. The drastic differences can be surprising. At times I was reading the logic from you all and I was having difficulty following because it was an extremely different approach than I was used to and you all were accustomed to it so to you it seems normal and obvious and makes one suspicious for not following it or thinking that same way. I wasn't playing like a newbie, simply was a newbie to your play style. Several elements were difficult, such as not being allowed to post at night. That is just one huge difference. Not having a poll to vote in made more of a difference than I expected as well. I would have used it to make myself more suspicious by perhaps drive by voting with no explanation, but I couldn't see that getting me lynched because I would have been obviously VI if I had here since in order to vote I have to post... This quote illustrates exactly what I am saying about the difference between Mafia here and Mafia at LP: But I consider game-related criticism a part of mafia games. Exactly - name calling and belittling someone when you are trying to get them lynched is the game but what are you trying to achieve when they are dead and out of the game and not allowed to respond? It is just a game - continuing on someone after you got them lynched makes no sense. Name calling and insulting is not acceptable game play among our players. Logic, accusations, instinct, lying, misrepresentation, etc. are all acceptable. But name calling and insults are not a way we get people lynched. I don't understand it personally. This is why you all probably got the response from us you did, it was a severe culture shock.
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Post by soylentred on Jul 17, 2009 16:54:11 GMT -5
Exactly - name calling and belittling someone when you are trying to get them lynched is the game but what are you trying to achieve when they are dead and out of the game and not allowed to respond? It is just a game - continuing on someone after you got them lynched makes no sense. Name calling and insulting is not acceptable game play among our players. Logic, accusations, instinct, lying, misrepresentation, etc. are all acceptable. But name calling and insults are not a way we get people lynched. I don't understand it personally. This is why you all probably got the response from us you did, it was a severe culture shock. Wray sorry about that I meant name calling and belittling CAN be part of the game. I try not to play like that and hope I don't come off that way. I must admit I lost my cool a bit this game but only after I felt I had been jibed and insulted quite a bit. Also I am not sure how you play your games or how you end them but I must admit this one ended in the most gloaty, rub it in way I have ever seen.
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Post by wrayburn on Jul 17, 2009 17:02:05 GMT -5
No one has anything to apologize to me for, I never felt personally insulted and I expect you all are nice people that I probably would get along with just fine. Just being honest about how I perceived this game.
I guess I didn't think they were trying to be gloaty, I thought they were just in the same boat as you, they had already figured out they had the mathematical win and did not see the point in hiding it since apparently Jason had overlooked it. I probably would have overlooked it too Jason. But I am sorry that in the end so many people felt offended by the other side. I do think it was just the situation on both sides and that we probably should not judge each other based upon that game end. And I would not like a gloating win either, Soy. So I understand what you are saying.
Anyway, I'll shut up now...
Slinky, who are you?
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Post by merlin on Jul 17, 2009 17:02:09 GMT -5
CG has the right of it, although I seem to recall you (that is CG) not liking their(that is the LP crowd) excuses.
Now, I may not like it, but I certainly understand it. So it's not much of an issue. As far as namecalling goes, if I happened to do so(I tend to reread my posts to avoid stuff like that), I hereby offer an apology. Namecalling is not only offensive, it's also stupid, since it tends to focus unfriendly attention on you. It isolates townies, making them an easy lynch, and it's even worse for Mafia of course.
I have no idea what most of the nicknames the LP crowd took mean (I'm guessing OneTreeHill is some sort of music album or group), apart from Kahlan and slinky (I loved those things growing up. I still don;t understand what made one of them walk down an entire staircase. (little friction and too much forward momentum for the top half of the slinky I guess))
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Post by water_moon on Jul 17, 2009 17:07:28 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300][admin][/glow] Firehorse, muzz, my office. NOT here. [glow=red,2,300][/admin][/glow] I was surprised that nobody thought that I could be the Don with my efforts to get lynched I did, but I couldn't draw that much attention to myself to get cg lynched for leading capri Day 1 and 2. I was trying to "follow" goltar after he came out so we could try to confuse the mafia as to which of us was really the doc and which the nurse if/when we did have to come out. If you had come out that day we would have had an extra name and maybe would have lynched one less townie. goltar: See I told you my "cause of death" post wasn't too obivious! And yeah, it's wierd not being an EU (Elite Unique to the LPers is what females in the D3 forums are called because we're so rare) wrayburn: Thank you for the MVP vote, but goltar and I failed to save a player I knew the mafia had to be mostly LPers since that's who they were killing off more than was warrented but really! there was no "cup in front of me" games with them, it was downright bizzare! I second the culture shock all the way around. The larger group also resulted in more posting (and thus more reading with it's attendent TLDR that pushes buttons). And it all added up to more bad manners than normally occur. Just be glad Liquid Evil wasn't here. He has an uncanny ablity to pinpoint mafia and gives them heck for it until they break that has a tendecy to dance on the fine line. And I now that I've played a game with unchangeable votes, I'm sorry for it when I did it. That drove me frinkn' nuts!!!
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slinky
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by slinky on Jul 17, 2009 17:59:56 GMT -5
I am stlgirl. >_>
as for the way the game ended: the general rule for mafia (and how we certainly play on LP) is that the game is over when the baddies are dead or there are more baddies than civvies in play. Neither of those cases were true here. That is why I saw these actions to be in bad form.
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Kahlan
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Kahlan on Jul 17, 2009 18:51:38 GMT -5
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Post by OneTreeHill on Jul 17, 2009 19:51:26 GMT -5
wrayburn: Thank you for the MVP vote, but goltar and I failed to save a player I knew the mafia had to be mostly LPers since that's who they were killing off more than was warrented but really! there was no "cup in front of me" games with them, it was downright bizzare! Well we only killed 2 LP'ers out of our 6 total targets, and we certainly wouldn't have killed them just because we came from the same forum. We killed Wrayburn because her recruitment failed and then at the end we just started killing the people we thought were least likely to be protected. At the end there was no point in trying to take out the power roles because that's what you'd expect us to do, and there's no point in making a kill that won't go through. Numbers were important at the end. Also I am not sure how you play your games or how you end them but I must admit this one ended in the most gloaty, rub it in way I have ever seen. I'm sorry you feel this way I don't think I was ever gloaty or that I ever rubbed it in. I never said "Eff you townies, we win we win!" I cast my vote, made a little joke of it, and when people asked why I didn't vote "no lynch" I explained it. I really don't know how people expect me to have played that differently =/ I've won as a baddie before and I probably would have done something similar in any other game I played. We had the controlling vote today and lynching a civvie today = victory, there was really no other way to do it. I'm done trying to defend my honor though, I think I played just fine and if anyone wants to dispute that, that's their call to make. I'm leaving this game proud of the way I played and that's good enough for me.
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Post by OneTreeHill on Jul 17, 2009 20:06:33 GMT -5
At first we thought you might be LA, but then you made a post from your phone during traffic or something and we had a pretty good feeling you were, well, you ;D Later I thought you might be Freckles because she implied that she was playing somewhere where the word "townie" was used and I couldn't think of anyone else for her to be.
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Post by goltar on Jul 17, 2009 20:11:56 GMT -5
OTH, I think the key part of things is that you made the joke. At least, to you it was a joke. To several of us, it was a direct slap in the face. The rest was completely fine and expected (at least in my mind). I've got no problem with your winning, and your playstyle was good. It's just the last little bit that set a lot of people off and everything degraded from there.
That's just my opinion of things. Take it as you will.
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Post by wrayburn on Jul 18, 2009 7:07:03 GMT -5
Well, all in all I am grateful for the experience with a new crowd and perhaps sometime we will play again together! I do like you all and was not offended by anyone, I just am not sure that the tone of this game was something I would want to take part in again. But who knows I guess! slinky: stlgirl?!?! I never in a million years would have guessed that. Well played!
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Post by Jason Maher on Jul 18, 2009 7:15:28 GMT -5
@muzzz, firehorse: not that I need to say this as the cookie mama has already done so, but please take your little discussion elsewhere (PM, email are two good options).
Thanks all for the compliments. I thoroughly enjoyed hosting the game, despite what I would consider 2 major screw-ups on my part. The first was not randomising which player I replaced, which I realised as a mistake as soon as I had sent the role PM to starman. Due to starman's speedy response to my plea for replacements and another LPer having contacted me previously about joining, I stupidly assumed I would easily find 3 replacements, and thus made the first one the neutral power role, which was of course a stupid, emotional decision.
The second mistake was failing to wait for the PM from the Mafia role-blocker (Don's Wife) before sending out a PM to the Drunk. I tried to even it up by giving them two blocks the following night, but of course it was impossible to properly redress the situation.
A couple of for-the-records:
- I did give starman a choice of alliance and power if he responded quickly enough, because the original MS had never contacted me to make a choice. - The other power starman could have chose was to send an anonymous PM via the host to a non-Mafia player each night.
A quick word on balancing Mafia games: I'm sure anyone who has ever hosted a game realises just how hard it is to strike a balance between Town and Mafia. There were points during this game when I thought I had made it too easy for the Town, and there were other points where I thought I had made it too easy for the Mafia. So much depends on which players end up on which team, and early game events can completely alter the balance very easily. The difference between an early Mafia lynch and a run of early Town lynches can be great. I think I would have had the balance about right if not for the two Town modkills, where I didn't choose randomly which player to replace first. What I tried to do, and hopefully succeeded in doing, was to prevent a situation where a first day Townie lynch leaves the Town behind the 8-ball, or where a first-day Mafia lynch has a similar effect on the other team.
@lpers: could someone post a list of 'oo is 'oo for mine (and others') benefit?
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